Associação Cultural Videobrasil

I guess both of these situations happen all the time in the process of constructing my work. I collect objects that I find intriguing and at times they do not turn into any sculpture. Other times, the transformation of these everyday objects works really well, and then I start looking for similar elements and producing new items. Generally speaking, my sculpture work is based on a very personal meeting with things around me, not only objects per se but situations they are in. They may range from very commonplace things that have always been beside me to things that I find in trips or in situations and experiences that are new to me. Based on this process of collection and appropriation, I try to bring them into the space of art and propose a short circuit in this path from triteness to an eventual sophistication of the object. The economy of gestures or techniques in this intervention on a given object is a very important aspect of the process.

2. Also regarding the ambiguity between characteristics that are either intrinsic or projected onto an object or shape, I was thinking about an answer you gave in your interview to Jens Hoffmann (see link in the Plus section). There you claim that you de-contextualize day-to-day objects to create works that often emulate modernist sculptures—in such a way that when you look at them thoroughly, these modernist shapes reveal themselves as having originated from elements of everyday life. Do you believe that this operation is also made possible by a dissemination of modernism-derived shapes andcolors that permeate the consumer goods with which we are faced every day, and which you use in order to build your sculptures?

Yes, I believe that that is one possible reading. I find that the best way to include these historical references in my work is when they are not that explicit and do not follow a strict model within the work process. I am not really interested in the reference in itself. I find it more stimulating when the work points to a reference in art history (and, in this respect, modernism is a constant) but embraces other sources that permeate other fields, such as design or architecture. I do believe there’s this dissemination derived from modernism that gets mass reproduced in day-to-day objects. Whenever I incorporate an object into my sculptures, I often emphasize this relation with design, with the utilitarian or decorative aspect that is there in the original object.

I believe, however, that the references in the artwork extend beyond modernism to establish other types of dynamics. In the pottery series (Terracotta Ebony), for instance, I combine plunger heads to make objects that look like sacred or ancestral urns, a very different visual repertoire. In more recent works, I work with wool yarn mixed with mops, establishing a link with the applied arts, popular culture, and handicraft.

3. It is important that you highlight the variety of references that your work comprises. Could you elaborate on this and maybe relate it to your initial studies in Brazil and later in the United Kingdom?

I believe that this formal economy featured in my work is perhaps the result of an aesthetics that I have assimilated ever since my initial training as an artist, which took place in Brazil. The artists who influenced me and what used to be valued then as anaesthetic standard have established a very important foundation to my artistic process.To a large extent, contemporary art in Latin America still follows this tradition and acertain tendency to seeking minimal gestures, the elegance of shapes. When I went to London to study, and distanced myself a bit from that repertoire, I became more aware of that influence, and I also began incorporating other forms of approaching art that werenot as linked to this quest for beauty, for the formal exercise. I believe that it was more productive for my process to combine these trends and incorporate more humor and irony into my work, for instance. I also began to notice the humor present in the formaldebates of artists such as Brancusi and others, who are very strong references in my work.

I guess this discussion regarding modernism has become a very recurrent issue in recent contemporary art production, and it has been discussed a lot lately, not always in the most appropriate way. There is a current trend followed by a generation of young European artists who make constant references to modernistic architecture with a nostalgic perspective that is at times over-aestheticized. On the other hand, this phenomenon inevitably disseminates important information about other places in the world, a visual repertoire that used to be less accessible before. I believe that it is important to acknowledge the presence of these possible aesthetic vices to which every artist is exposed, and to deal with them. But I believe in works of art that have a more universal discourse, in which the reference is not the end of the line, but rather a bridge to otherreadings.

4. To me, the power of much of your work resides precisely in this precarious point of balance that they establish, as if they were standing in the exact spot that allows them to be both at once: handkerchief and banner, rubber and ebony. Just like the classic optical game in which a chalice is at once two profiles, your objects and sculptures have an elastic, trembling, ambiguous existence, like an uncompleted mutation that surrenders comfortably to neither one nor the other side. This is not exactly a question, but what do you think of this reading?

I really like this idea of yours, of a mutation that is not fully completed. I am pleased whenever people refer to my sculptures by the objects of which they are made instead of the titles, for instance. I find it stimulating whenever this transformation takes place more in the imagination of viewers than strictly in the visual field. 

As an artist, I see myself as an intermediary, more than as someone who masters a given technique or a specific discourse. Even though I use economic gestures, my work features an investment and a concern with shape, with the combination of elements, the surface and color work that only becomes consistently established after much research and studio work. 

I find that this notion of a trembling existence is also linked to the idea of fantasy, of disguise, of a certain illusionism. My sculptures concern a classical repertoireof sculptural representation (busts, public sculptures, pottery, ceramics, etc.) and are, in principle, read as such. Once the material reveals itself to the eyes of the viewer, this idea is immediately undone and they become a sort of sculptural disguise. Oncethat happens, they become vulnerable and at the same time become funny, weird, and therefore relevant as an art object.

5. Exactly: a household disguise. Because whenever we put on a fancy dress (and in particular when the fancy dress is homemade), we might be a pirate, but we are still ourselves, and it is possible to recognize us behind the eye patch, the fake or painted mustache. With regard to BMX, a work that belongs in the Videobrasil collection, it seems to me that it also comprises an ambiguity, that the video creates a suspensionbridge between different areas of culture, and that it is a moment in between public and private, something in between a rehearsal and a screening. I would like you to talk about the process of making that video, about the juxtaposition of images filmed on the street and the audio taken from a self-help CD.

This process of collage, of juxtaposing elements is a recurring issue in my work process. In the sculptures that I did using the skateboards (Fan Series) I brought the household universe (using pans and kitchen utensils) closer to youth street culture. The idea of short-circuiting these two fields is always a motivation in my work, and I really like to put the elements to the test and see how they may be read by different audiences that are familiar with the elements used in my work to greater or lesser extents. Besides, there is the issue of appropriation, which at times extends beyond the object itself and becomes an appropriation of stories or narratives. The first time I showed the video, many people thought that I was the one riding the bike, or that I had done thevoiceover.

The way in which I incorporate video or photography into my work is always quite direct, using very low-tech editing and production mechanisms, and it is very similar to the way in which I make sculptures using objects that I have found. In the case of BMX, on my way to work, I had been watching this guy practicing everyday for some time, at around the same time. This idea of a routine, of practice, repetition, and virtuosity attracted my attention. The idea was to draw a parallel with my own work as an artist, with the lonely, repetitious work, the quest for getting better at what you do, and the notion of success and recognition.

When editing, I only cut out the moments in which he falls down, and joined all of the clips together as if he were always going from one motion to another in a very natural way. The self-help CD audio is like a dubious commentary, an affirmation of the editing trick. This relation with the idea of success and failure, and the relation with routine, also applies to other lines of work and professions, and to the contemporary world in general, which encourages a constant quest for better performance. I guess the video speaks of that and it also approaches issues of public and private, as you said. I am also interested in the aspect of making casual action, the practicing (a rehearsal),into the final event.