Associação Cultural Videobrasil

Is there any form of strategy in your use of different languages to arrive at a sort of materialization of the word?

I have never felt like an artist, a visual artist. As a matter of fact, my starting point is the word, the poetics, which is a safe haven from where I set out on adventures into other languages, be it music, poetry, or the visual arts. What is always at playis the toying with poetic significance. But this search for other languages led me towards a physical presence of the word. This process is in my poetry as well, it already features this same material treatment of language, this bodily relation. I am not the type of author who writes a verse or poem without drafting, all at once. I meddle, I change, I subtract, I invert the order. I need to externalize my memory so as to be able tomaterially see all of the possibilities before I am satisfied. I have a desire for thematerial. The same holds true in music, I change it, record it, listen to it, and alter it. I do not solve it internally. There is a quest for the essential in this bodily combat with language.

So the creation lies in this very process.

Absolutely. In these language switches there has always been a quest for materiality, a greater presence of materiality. In music, in spoken-word poetry, in performance, for instance, the use of voice is very important, the physical execution of the word, the bringing of the word to the body. The same applies to gesture, which is present in music and in spoken-word poetry. There is also the aspect of exploring variations in timbre. In the case of the visual arts, at first I went for calligraphy, which involves gesture, the line that chants the word, the act of the arm and the tremor of the hand. I then started making large calligraphies, monotypes that are quasi-cathartic to make. Themaking of calligraphy ends up bringing other things, a word emerges during the process, the text changes as you deliver yourself to the lines.

Does the entire process take place without an established rational plan?

Yes, but it changes as you go along. It might begin with a sentence, a melody, but the process is one of change, and the point of arrival is far removed from the initial idea, it happens, and ends up being more interesting. This was how I started with calligraphies and arrived at objects that involve words, metal plaques, installations that are also very tactile environments. Then I arrived at objects that may go without words, as is the case with a piece in which I displace a door out of its habitual, it is a 360-degree door that becomes void of practical use, it only has poetic use, because it is no longer used for going from one place to another, it only spins around its axis.

This process of detouring from the context, from an original use, does it also take place with words?

Yes, making use of the context, detouring from the context.

Don’t you feel satisfied with the meaning of words?

There is always a desire for more, for embracing the world, for seeking an absolute significance, and it leads me in all of these directions in my work. In creation, for creative use, the word is always material to me, it may be viewed from various angles, be removed from one purpose and ascribed another, it may be broken in half. In creative use it is always like that, the word is a matter that applies to various situations. However, it has a day-to-day use, in which it is more transparent, and in artistic work Iseek to make it more opaque.

Doesn’t being an ‘artist of the word’ limit your field of research?

I have a desire to research the boundaries of language. Why does this mean this instead of that? This is the philosophy of language. But in addition to using language, I am interested in learning what is the limit of language itself, of naming. This has to do with the use of formats, with realizing how far the word can go by mixing it with image, with sound. Can word and sound result in anything other than a song? What are the limits of a song, when it works with simultaneous voices?

An interesting point in your career is that you developed these researches in mass production as well, such as in CDs, TV appearances, and concerts. Even before your solo career, when you were with the Titãs, you placed mass consumers in touch with certain specific poetic procedures, such as concretism, with which they had had little or no contact at all.

This is to test the limits as well, to test the limits of common taste. The song is a language that enables you to move a bit farther than people are used to towards something stranger. I believe that people are much thirstier for new things than informationvehicles want to lead us to believe. Popular music does not need to be trite, and throughout its history there has always been a quest for sophistication. A person who is familiar with my music might become interested in my poetry, or go to an exhibition of my work at a gallery. Ties may be established, in a way. However, it ends up being an experience with very distinct audiences. The difference between the penetration of popular music and poetry is an abyss. I am privileged, because music gives my poetry visibility. The transit between the two is still very sparse.

All of these processes involve new information technologies. Are they able to change the sensibilities of the creator and the public?

Absolutely. Today, a large share of my work is developed based on resources that thecomputer offers. My way of recording a CD has changed, it is all put together like a puzzle. You come to personally incorporate these new processes into your creative process. The collage, the tradition of collage, however, is a mode of thinking that is part ofmodernity, reconstructing and rebuilding, and in essence it applies to high technology and contemporary existence. The editing-oriented thinking becomes more current.

Can you imagine all avenues of your production coming together at a given moment and project?

It might happen. There are moments in which all actions walk together. Production ismade in a parallel fashion; as I record a CD I might be thinking of performance, and anintersection might take place, although on a very small scale, such as using the song in a performance, or using the performance in a concert, or in the Nome video. Maybe oneday it all might happen on a larger scale.

And what is your expectation regarding the audience, what is your relation with them as you propose a performance, rather than a concert?

Unfamiliarity, a relation of unfamiliarity. But I do not have a precise expectation regarding the audience, as a matter of fact. I have done performances in many other countries, because they have a more intense international transit than my music concert. There are performance, poetry, literature festivals with more experimental proposals. The people react in very different ways. In this case, the reaction is similar to the oneelicited by songs, because performances are capable of reaching audiences no matter what language they speak, just as we used to love the Beatles without speaking English.